Why We Occupy

October 27

Joshua

This interview was conducted at Charlotte’s Place, 107 Greenwich Street.

I see that people are feeling pissed about getting burned. Can you tell me what the media’s been up to?

There are narratives being created to affect public opinion; that’s not my expertise. I have been so busy with the kitchen that I don’t have time to brush up on the latest, current stories that are floating about. I just know personally, from working in the kitchen, some of the stories that have been written about us.

Our interaction with those media groups happens to coincide with the increase in some of the unwanted activity of drugs, violence, and assault in the rest of the park. The media has worked different ways of trying to smear us. There’s been a lot of bullshit that’s been said. They’re spinning it out in such a way where, you know, we’re a group of people who don’t have any direction and goals. They keep trying to say that: “Well, what is this all about?” and this and that and the other.

It’s an important discussion that needs to be had amongst ourselves, but we need to do P.R. It’s going to take a coordinated effort. We’re getting attacked at different angles related to the movement, and to our individuals who are activists and organizers. We’ve been attacked for how the Finance Working Group has been operating. We’ve also been attacked for serving good food!

I mean, the kitchen itself has really worked hard to do as best as we can in the situation we have. We’re going above and beyond what I think is required of us, because we’re not a “kitchen,” you know? We’re not a restaurant. It’s more like . . . a potluck. So we often get catered food, or we outsource some of our meals to people who are passed by the health inspectors. And so for us, it’s not something we should be worrying about. We don’t need to have some sort of grade in our kitchen because we’re in a unique situation. We’re basically handing food out that’s been given to us or catered.

We have also had some internal issues. An individual in the kitchen disseminated false information to the media, and it was negative information that caused a dust-up among conservatives.

What information?

This person said that a fifty-five hundred dollar computer was stolen from her personal belongings.

What kind of laptop would that be?

Well, right. Fifty-five hundred dollar laptop . . . does it exist? I mean, I don’t know that much about the prices, but from what I hear, if you got the most expensive laptop that Apple offers, and you had it tricked out with all its bells and whistles, then maybe you’re talking about a laptop that could cost that much. But right away, the bullshit detector goes on, you know? It’s really sad that the New York Post—

Is that where it was?

Yeah.

Are you from New York originally?

No.

Oh, because they’re the worst rag.

They’re just gossip-mongers. My impression is that they don’t know what to make of the movement. They like to create climates of opinion, but they’re also a hop-on-the-bandwagon sort of newspaper. They’ll like it if other people start to like it, but then they also like to be on the front lines of smearing and causing friction at the same time.

And also, the false information was that we had a certain amount of the kitchen’s finances stolen from the kitchen, which was just total and utter falsehood.

Who said that?

The same person.

Could it possibly be that this person was purposefully spreading misinformation?

It is possible that there are people in the movement who could do something like that, but I don’t believe that she is a provocateur. I just think that she has a problem of not speaking the truth. I mean, she’s told me she has a psychology degree, and then she’s told somebody else that she’s a law student at N.Y.U., and that she’s eighteen years old, and she speaks, like, forty-eight different languages. So you make your own assessment of that, you know? When someone starts saying stuff like that, I mean . . .

We can’t stop that. We can’t stop what people in the park say to the press. Reporters are going to be walking around, digging for information, looking for any lines they can put in their paper. They need to get the story. They need to find something that, basically, helps the bottom line for them, you know? There’s a cynical saying in the newsroom: “Don’t let the facts get in the way of a good story.” So . . . I think that definitely applies to the Post.

What’s your take on the whole strike thing? The workers’ strike that people are talking about?

We’re trying to simplify kitchen services, but we’re not going to just completely stop serving food cold turkey. There’s been lots of rumors swirling around about that.

All we’re trying to do is cut back on the types of food and services we are offering, so that we as a group can reorganize, possibly winterize, and discuss future projects on how to make this thing better. We’re trying to coordinate our efforts.

We’re working on attitude, and on guidelines for the kitchen. It’s a big issue that people who come in to help serve have core customer relations abilities. Basically, we’re needing to train people to work in a food service situation, even though we’re not an official kitchen or restaurant. We do have people here who have that experience, and so we need to be able to share knowledge. We need to take some time to rethink on how we can do this. Part of the problem is that the kitchen is a very fast-paced working group, where we’re trying to feed a few thousand people a day.

How many?

A few thousand. I mean, we’ve gone through that many plates. We’ve gone over that many in a single dinner.

There are individuals who want to strike. They’re upset about these negative elements destroying what people are working to build. I’ve been in a number of the meetings where this controversial subject has come up, and the best thing that we came up with was that we would try to have a kitchen that is simplified, with a very across-the-board food menu to everyone.

Our service deals with a general human need. That goes for occupiers, plus newcomers, and the homeless, and the public. We’re doing the city a service in a lot of ways. But we also have, like, a soup kitchen where people can hang out all day and be able to score drugs at the same time. People can be able to get fed, hang out, also have drug dealers show up.

As opposed to an actual soup kitchen.

Yeah, they’re open and closed for certain hours. And so we have kind of a difficult situation. There’s a certain amount of overcrowding that’s happening, and that has a tendency to cause negative situations to proliferate. So the kitchen is trying to help out with security issues. Some of the women who help in the kitchen—and other women in other parts of the camp—don’t feel safe. Food is a basic right that everyone deserves, but safety also is a basic right. At this point, a lot of us in the kitchen feel that the safety of individuals in the kitchen or in the camp trumps some of the other issues.

It’s not a prison, as far as trying to modify behavior through food rationing. People aren’t trapped there, you know? For those people who really need help, I don’t think we are ever going to be the best alternative for them. There are other people who specialize in helping them, whether psychologically or just satisfying their material needs. I mean, this is people camping out in a park! People went there by choice! Nobody’s forced to stay there. All we’re doing is trying to offer a basic service to help the people who want to stay there. Anybody who wants to disrupt that on a group of volunteers . . . they have issues.

I mean, the park’s open. It’s a public park, but the people in the park are people who went there for a reason. People could have gone there and dealt drugs before we ever went there. People could have lived there before, but nobody did. My impression is that Zuccotti Park just wasn’t a major drug hub, you know? It was not a park the homeless like to stay at a lot. That park’s actually not very conducive . . .

It’s sort of a fishbowl.

It’s not that comfortable.

How do you think this is going to get worked out?

Well, it’s a bigger discussion. A lot of the cultural problems that the city has to deal with are also moving in here. I want to be cautious in slandering the police department, but we’ve heard reports of people who basically have been dropped off here from Rikers.

From Rikers! Really?

That’s the report I heard. We would like to confirm that with our own surveillance and stuff, but there are definitely people who would like to see this stop. A lot of people would like to see this end.

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I’ve worked with different organizations that are involved in activism. One that’s involved in environmental activist work is called Time’s Up! There’s also Inner Hands; we’ve been doing community dinners for a long time. We get dumpster food or donated food, and we offer a space where we can get together. We cook dinner together, support one another, work on community-building, and work on the Free Store.

Was that the one that was outside?

Yeah, it was outside, in Bed-Stuy. It got burned down, so when Occupy Wall Street happened, I was able to coalesce with the action. I came here on the first day. It was put on by Adbusters, or it was promoted by Adbusters. The very first day, we were serving peanut butter and jelly sandwiches and hot fruit, and it just organically came together. ❖